tO$U Post game thread!!!

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Offline Crusader

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #100 on: January 24, 2011, 10:21:07 AM »
I don't think I'm whining about the criticism of the board.  I just like to hear the good with the bad.  I also don't think I've lowered my expectations of this team.  This is what got me upset...I went to the game on Sat. and yes, was disappointed because we lost but happy for the most part with the way we played, especially with DMAC not "showing up".  I was upbeat to a point thinking, we ALMOST beat the # 1 team in the nation and that is HUGE!  But as soon as I got home and checked the board I saw the 5-6 pg thread and prepared myself for the long haul.  No, not all of it was critical and I admit that but come on, every loss equals a thread like this and as (I think Musson) said, a winning thread only elicits maybe a 3 or 4 page response!  This team is good and the potential is there and it will come...we just have to be patient!

Well said LA. 

I NEVER get involved in the post game thread when this team loses - if frustrates me more than the actual game.  But, this is an Illini board afterall.

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Offline hhbj

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #101 on: January 24, 2011, 01:16:02 PM »
A thought just came to me..........a lot of people are on Dmac's case.....but what about DJ.............. what has he done - what has he given to the team the last 5 games- i think Bruce should sit Dj and start Paul- he sat Cole when he wasn't giving much- so why cant he sit DJ and let him play the role that Paul playe -back up point- Dmac played better than  Dj and thats not saying much-  Weber needs to stick to his word- in the past he sat Dmac and Mike D- play Head and Bertrand and let Dj think about being something more than a jump shooter-

I think you need to examine the BOX score between BP & DJ they played the same minutes but the production was much different. Don't just look at the points. Also you must consider the right passes at the right times. DJ did take it to the rim in 1/2 of his shots attempts. Additionally there were several times in the game where DJ was wide open and did not get the ball to be able to shoot in tempo or when he was going to the basket. The most glaring was the out of bounds play, where because of screen DJ had an open lane to the basket & Dmac decided to inbound the ball to Tis out high so he could get it back.

Here is a chichen & egg question. Does Dmac have a high number of assist because of good passes or does he have a high number of assist because of good shooters?

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Offline illiniman94

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #102 on: January 24, 2011, 01:23:21 PM »
...also, what is all this whiney crap about us criticizing the players and coaching staff?  because your criticism is completely off base and old!   If they deserve it, they deserve it.  That is what a board like this gives us... a forum to express our viewpoints.  The fact is, this team was advertised to be something special...no it wasn't we decided on this board that they were going to be special...they were picked as a top 25 team, not top ten and that is what they are a top 25 team. apparently they're not.  However, that isn't going to cause me to just sit back and say "oh well, they aren't as good as they were supposed to be so I'm going to lower my expectations."   Sorry, I'm not going to do it.  They came within just a few posessions of beating the number one team in the nation, so yes, my expectations are STILL high. 

I just want the senior leaders to start playing like they SHOULD play, and for the excuses to stop.  So yes, it IS about passion and desire.  One can't possibly play as lazy and disinterested as McCamey and Davis play at times and assume that they have the passion required to win these types of games.  Passion drives "execution".  I'll say it again... If McCamey shows up and plays his heart out, we win this game.  When he plays to his potential, he alone can make a 10 - 12 point difference in a game.   He's our senior leader, so I think it's fair to place a heavier share of the burden on his shoulders.  If he can't handle that responsibility, then again, he doesn't have the passion required to lead a team in college OR play in the NBA.  Your analysis is ridiculous and wrong.......Davis kept us in this game...DMAC played bad but that isn't because he wanted to play bad........I am sorry but your act is old and wrong...are you a fan of the team only when we win?  I am an Illini fan, a realistic Illini fan who stays with my team through thick and thin........

Side note:  I've watched OSU play a lot this year and Aaron Craft is the real deal.  He is among the quickest, and best defenders I've seen in a long time especially for a freshman.  Matta has said he has "elite lateral speed".  I'm glad he went to OSU instead of Tennesse, which is where he had committed before Matta offered him.

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Offline illiniman94

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #103 on: January 24, 2011, 01:31:01 PM »
Cru and Hawk I am sorry for that last post but I come to this board because I thought it wasn't a hack board where "adults" didn't constantly rip on players and the coach...........as several folks have pointed out,  after a loss all we hear is that our guys are losers, have no heart, they don't want to win, they are lazy, Bruce is an idiot who can't coach, ......good lord people grow the hell up and get into reality........teams lose.....players have bad games....none of us (that I know of) played or coached at this level......there is a reason for this...there is a reason these coaches and players are in Chambana and we aren't.......we are a top 25 program with a very good coaching staff....let them coach and let them play without ripping them after every mistake they make........

BTW I am sure none of us ever fail at anything in life.....thank God we don't have a forum to criticize my every move in life because that list would be long.

Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #104 on: January 24, 2011, 03:13:21 PM »
Iman, dude, chill!   Your response to my post didn't upset me, so there is no need to apologize to Hawk or Cru.  You are entitled to your opinion, and I have no issues with your perspective on the Illini!   :thumbup:   I would just appreciate an open and honest debate without the condescending or insulting remarks. 

I am not an uneducated fan, a new fan, a 'fair weathered fan', or someone who doesn't understand the game.  As far as my 'fanhood', I have been an Illini fan for 35 years having attended my first Illinois game at the age of 11 in 1975 and many since then.  I was fortunate to have played HS and College basketball, I officiated the game for 10 years at the HS, NAIA, NCAA DIII level, and I had the opportunity to coach the game for 14 years.  My point is, like many on this board, I bring a perspective that touches on all facets of the game.  That perspective doesn't make me right, but I think I deserve more credit for having an experienced and relevant perspective on this game than you are giving me.     

For the record, I feel that I have ALWAYS presented fresh, and 'against the grain' perspective here during wins, or losses.  And I freely admit that I am not a drinker of the orange koolaid.  I give objective credit when credit is due, but I also don't suddenly forget about a player's overwhelming body of work just because they have one or two good games.  If I didn't love the Illini, I wouldnt be on this board for as long as I have been.   

As far as the coaching staff is concerned... I have been an ardent and vocal supporter of Bruce Weber on this board even during the one specific year we would all love to forget, but this year I have changed by tune.   I think the friction between you and I is the whole "execution vs. coaching philosophy and player heart" argument we have been having lately.   You believe it's execution, and actually if you read what I've written, I agree with you.  Our guys don't consistently execute.  That is an undisputed fact.   However, I think the difference between our two perspectives is, I don't believe that execution is the foundational, or root cause of the problem here. I believe it to be a symptom of a larger problem.  How many more years do we need of Coach Weber's system to finally figure out that his system is not working?  Is it just the players?  Maybe.  I could buy into that idea, except HE is recruiting the players we have, so if its the PLAYERS, and the coach is responsible for recruiting the players, what does that tell you about the coach's ability to assess and recognize talent, OR to develop that talent into college ball players?  That's one possible problem we have.  The other is the overall system and style of play he has installed here.  We have beat that subject into the ground, but it deserves discussion.  I'm not the only guy on this board that feels his style hurts us, especially near the end of the game.  For example, he has recruited some pretty impressive athletes (i.e. DJ, BP, ML, JR, and others), but yet he sticks to an offensive scheme and style that is better suited to a different type of player than the guys he has recruited.  Is that the player's fault, or the coach's?

Bottom line is, I am ok with you disagreeing with my opinion, but please be fair about how you disagree.  IMO, we aren't that far apart, but we both have strong opinions on what the real problem is.
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.  2 Chronicles 7:14

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Offline hhbj

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2011, 03:20:37 PM »
Cru and Hawk I am sorry for that last post but I come to this board because I thought it wasn't a hack board where "adults" didn't constantly rip on players and the coach...........as several folks have pointed out,  after a loss all we hear is that our guys are losers, have no heart, they don't want to win, they are lazy, Bruce is an idiot who can't coach, ......good lord people grow the hell up and get into reality........teams lose.....players have bad games....none of us (that I know of) played or coached at this level......there is a reason for this...there is a reason these coaches and players are in Chambana and we aren't.......we are a top 25 program with a very good coaching staff....let them coach and let them play without ripping them after every mistake they make........

BTW I am sure none of us ever fail at anything in life.....thank God we don't have a forum to criticize my every move in life because that list would be long.

Don't get to down on the people posting on here. None are like the old Reality123 (I think, oh maybe one) :icon_biggrin: Really they are just Fanatical Fans that wish their teams could be NC's every year. If all would look at other broads and realize that no program, coach, or players would meet the expections of fans, then what fun would it be to read this or any other broad. Every program, coach, & players have runs of greatness and of something less.  The mode of excellance could not be maintained in the Bulls or Celtics after their runs, but yet some teams never make the runs, no matter how much money is spent (Cubs). Do I wish my Cubs or Illini would win a championship before I die, you betcha and I'm running out of time. Even "Duke" with all the talent in the world do not win very often.  They get the top tier gamers because they have had the exposure of ESPN behind them for so long. The fact that we are very near them is just amazing. I wonder how the other 300 teams feel. OSU got going because of IU down fall and grab some of the talent because of the IU coaching. This will change and OSU will come back to earth. I believe that the Illini is poised to make one of these runs. 

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Offline hhbj

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2011, 03:28:46 PM »
Hey Flying, by some chance do you Chuck Feeney? 

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Offline illiniman94

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #107 on: January 24, 2011, 03:45:25 PM »
Iman, dude, chill!   Your response to my post didn't upset me, so there is no need to apologize to Hawk or Cru.  You are entitled to your opinion, and I have no issues with your perspective on the Illini!   :thumbup:   I would just appreciate an open and honest debate without the condescending or insulting remarks. 

I am not an uneducated fan, a new fan, a 'fair weathered fan', or someone who doesn't understand the game.  As far as my 'fanhood', I have been an Illini fan for 35 years having attended my first Illinois game at the age of 11 in 1975 and many since then.  I was fortunate to have played HS and College basketball, I officiated the game for 10 years at the HS, NAIA, NCAA DIII level, and I had the opportunity to coach the game for 14 years.  My point is, like many on this board, I bring a perspective that touches on all facets of the game.  That perspective doesn't make me right, but I think I deserve more credit for having an experienced and relevant perspective on this game than you are giving me.     

For the record, I feel that I have ALWAYS presented fresh, and 'against the grain' perspective here during wins, or losses.  And I freely admit that I am not a drinker of the orange koolaid.  I give objective credit when credit is due, but I also don't suddenly forget about a player's overwhelming body of work just because they have one or two good games.  If I didn't love the Illini, I wouldnt be on this board for as long as I have been.   

As far as the coaching staff is concerned... I have been an ardent and vocal supporter of Bruce Weber on this board even during the one specific year we would all love to forget, but this year I have changed by tune.   I think the friction between you and I is the whole "execution vs. coaching philosophy and player heart" argument we have been having lately.   You believe it's execution, and actually if you read what I've written, I agree with you.  Our guys don't consistently execute.  That is an undisputed fact.   However, I think the difference between our two perspectives is, I don't believe that execution is the foundational, or root cause of the problem here. I believe it to be a symptom of a larger problem.  How many more years do we need of Coach Weber's system to finally figure out that his system is not working?  Is it just the players?  Maybe.  I could buy into that idea, except HE is recruiting the players we have, so if its the PLAYERS, and the coach is responsible for recruiting the players, what does that tell you about the coach's ability to assess and recognize talent, OR to develop that talent into college ball players?  That's one possible problem we have.  The other is the overall system and style of play he has installed here.  We have beat that subject into the ground, but it deserves discussion.  I'm not the only guy on this board that feels his style hurts us, especially near the end of the game.  For example, he has recruited some pretty impressive athletes (i.e. DJ, BP, ML, JR, and others), but yet he sticks to an offensive scheme and style that is better suited to a different type of player than the guys he has recruited.  Is that the player's fault, or the coach's?

Bottom line is, I am ok with you disagreeing with my opinion, but please be fair about how you disagree.  IMO, we aren't that far apart, but we both have strong opinions on what the real problem is.

Flying I too played high school ball, I did not play college in football or basketball because if I couldn't play D1 I didn't want to play.  The education was more important to me.  That being said I have been an Illini fan since I was around 7 years old and I have watched a ton of ball over the years so I am no slouch about basketball strategy myself.

All that being said, I simply disagree with your analysis and that is fine.  You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.   My problem is that this board has turned into whining about every single time a player or coach breathes.   I am not saying that is all you, it isn't...but IMO there is way too much second guessing of things on this board.

The Weber thing has been beat to death....He is doing an outstanding job as a coach right now and we know what the issues were.....those issues are in the past, other than the senior class and I will say that class has over achieved if you look at their rankings coming in out of high school.  Tiz was a 3 star bean pole who could barely walk without tripping for crying out loud.

Anyway, I am just asking that the board lets the season play out and stop over reacting to wins and losses.  If we miss the tourney then we have concern, but I see that as about a 1% possibility.   Weber's recruiting these last three years, his NC game year and overall record deserve that much.

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Offline Big Phil

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Re: tO$U Post game thread!!!
« Reply #108 on: January 24, 2011, 03:51:50 PM »
One last thing before I lock this thread:

This is a postgame thread. It is meant TO ANALYZE THE GAME AND WHAT OCCURS IN THE GAME GOOD OR BAD

This thread is 8 pages long, as LA said, half of those 8 are people complaining about people complaining about people complaining it's too long and there are a few half page posts, which is totally cool it's what this THREAD is here for.

And as usual, folks can always choose not to read it, or comment in it, either are totally fine.

So on that note, let's beat IU on thursday, OSU postgame analysis is OVA  ;)
Bite it Big Ten, here come the MIGHTY ILLINI