Illini Basketball culture is lost

[misterp]

Klee kills me sometimes, he titles the article with Culture and then doesn't discuss culture...he discusses toughness.

I loved this quote from Meyers because I have been saying it for two years:

"It has to do with the players, nothing with the coaches," suggested Meyers Leonard, who had a game-high 21 points. "I wouldn't say it's effort. We all care."

While there have been times when they haven't given full effort, it is always about executing.

Then tell me, why do we pay the coach more money than college professors? Why not just let the Gym teacher coach?

[misterp]

Klee kills me sometimes, he titles the article with Culture and then doesn't discuss culture...he discusses toughness.

I loved this quote from Meyers because I have been saying it for two years:

"It has to do with the players, nothing with the coaches," suggested Meyers Leonard, who had a game-high 21 points. "I wouldn't say it's effort. We all care."

While there have been times when they haven't given full effort, it is always about executing.

Then it should not matter if Weber is the coach according to Meyers and you. Anyone can coach as long as the players do what they say. Sorry, I don't buy it. If it were true, we would not be paying these guys millions.

Sorry I should have read your post first. You are right. Coaches are only worth the money if they can get the players to execute winning basketball. Otherwise they should just step aside for someone who can.

[misterp]

Guys with all due respect (cue Ricky Bobby)

We all agree change is needed. You guys are arguing over semantics really, who is to blame, who is a good coach, etc.. Bottom line is everyone is to blame, but Bruce is the captain and making the $$$ so he gets replaced. No sense in arguing anymore about what happened in 2005, if Meyers listens or not, why we show lack of effort on defense, why we cant pass, why our roster was built how it was  (or wasnt)... etc....

Clearly RIGHT NOW this program is completely broken and needs a new direction. Maybe it's just TIME for everyone to move on.

Is our culture lost? YES IT IS

Can we get it back? I DONT KNOW

 
[/quote

Phil its my experience that before one can fix a problem, they first must define it. They need to understand just what the problem is and what causes it. Otherwise they will just keep repeating the same things and the problem persists. I see Firehawks posts as a step in understanding the roots of the problem. We have gotten to the point where we see the problem manifests with the players in how they play. They are not communicating with each other and they are a step slow and they can't shoot from outside. Now its a matter of figuring out how they got that way.

This is something Weber must come to grips with in the limited time he has left, and it is something the next coach will need to remedy. As fans we will always be putting our two cents worth in. But to me the play of the players is really the symptom, not the disease and Weber is failing because he is not looking at himself as the cause of the problem.

[illiniman94]

Klee kills me sometimes, he titles the article with Culture and then doesn't discuss culture...he discusses toughness.

I loved this quote from Meyers because I have been saying it for two years:

"It has to do with the players, nothing with the coaches," suggested Meyers Leonard, who had a game-high 21 points. "I wouldn't say it's effort. We all care."

While there have been times when they haven't given full effort, it is always about executing.

Then tell me, why do we pay the coach more money than college professors? Why not just let the Gym teacher coach?

Doesn't deserve a response.

[obmtl]

This from the Klee chat today is VERY disheartening.

Hey, players are getting Facebook messages ? on their wall and in private messages ? asking them who will be their next coach. Several players went to a campus bar recently ? I know, gasp ? and were heckled by fellow students.

Yes, the team has preformed poorly in the past few weeks, and many of us have been critical of their play, but to heckle them when they are out in the community is really crossing the line as far as I'm concerned.

Klee's answer to the last question is long, but has some other interesting insights as well. I know some do not  agree with his opinions, but he is close to the program and reports some occurrences that lend some perspective.

http://www.illinihq.com/chats/2012-02-21/february-22-illinois-basketball-chat.html

[bwbp3]

You must have never drank at all then...

A couple weeks ago after my fair share of drinks I saw Griffey out at a bar.  I knew he hadn't been playing much at all and a kid was kinda ripping on him when I walked by so I told him "keep shooting buddy" haha.  Students asking about the coach shouldn't be considered heckling...when D1 athletes go out on campus, there is going to be lots of questions concerning the team.  When things are good, athletes are going to be considered celebrities.  In tough times, drunk kids will yell some ugly things in their direction.  This happens everywhere.  I'm not saying its right, but its something they have to deal with.  Even Bruce calls them pussies but i think they should be able to handle this...

[JimmyChitwood]

Klee kills me sometimes, he titles the article with Culture and then doesn't discuss culture...he discusses toughness.

I loved this quote from Meyers because I have been saying it for two years:

"It has to do with the players, nothing with the coaches," suggested Meyers Leonard, who had a game-high 21 points. "I wouldn't say it's effort. We all care."

While there have been times when they haven't given full effort, it is always about executing.

Then tell me, why do we pay the coach more money than college professors? Why not just let the Gym teacher coach?

Doesn't deserve a response.

Sure it does. You could say the same thing you are saying with regards to any team with a coach. "Well, if they just would of executed my offense and defense we would of won the game"....well no crap. Every coach comes in with some type of offense/defense that has worked somewhere otherwise why would they run it?

I think it goes just a bit deeper then that dude. Maybe the coach isn't good at relaying the message to the players on how to properly execute his plan? Perhaps he recruited the wrong type of players to properly execute his plan. There are a number of things that keep coaches seperated in terms of being "big time" and "no names" in College Basketball. The reason Weber is being shown the door has to do with a number of things, not one. The excuse you are giving Weber is a universal excuse that any coach could make when they are failing.

[abwly45]

Sure it does. You could say the same thing you are saying with regards to any team with a coach. "Well, if they just would of executed my offense and defense we would of won the game"....well no crap. Every coach comes in with some type of offense/defense that has worked somewhere otherwise why would they run it?

I think it goes just a bit deeper then that dude. Maybe the coach isn't good at relaying the message to the players on how to properly execute his plan? Perhaps he recruited the wrong type of players to properly execute his plan. There are a number of things that keep coaches seperated in terms of being "big time" and "no names" in College Basketball. The reason Weber is being shown the door has to do with a number of things, not one. The excuse you are giving Weber is a universal excuse that any coach could make when they are failing.

This coach wasn't good at getting players.  Sure they were all ranked high but collectively didn't make a team.  You can get guys in the 40-75 range all you want buy eventually the 1-20 guys are needed to win.

Just an FYI the last team to win a NCAA championship that no longer has a player active in the NBA is the 2000 MSU team.  Mo Pete was last active NBA  in 2009.  So every team that has won a national championship since 2000 has an active player Still in the NBA.  Hell even the 99,98 and 97 champ teams still have guys on an NBA roster.

Talent wins in college.  Weber never got his own talent.  Look at 2004-05 that team had a now elite level NBA PG, and how much he won.  Its not rocket science. 

Get a guy here that can get talent, and most importantly recognize talent.  Give me a guy that can look at the 40-100 players and find the 10 guys that will be worth a damn.  And not they yeah they had decent college career, Paul DJ types.

[Original Joe]

Sadly, Weber does not successfully recruit 'his type of player' - and that's ultimately his own fault/problem.

Chet was the ultimate Weber player, DMac the antithesis of a Weber player.  Chet would run thru walls for BW.

Inspite of the crazy shots - I still am a big Brandon Paul fan - and Brandon Paul is not a Bruce Weber player.  Brandon seems to simply want to play for the U of I ... and Weber just happens to coach there. 

*** Wisky may never make a Final 4, but Ryan always has teachable kids who focus on winning.  Ryan coaches kids he can reach, but BW often seems to be lost in an echo chamber, screaming at kids who don't or can't hear him

[obmtl]

You must have never drank at all then...

A couple weeks ago after my fair share of drinks I saw Griffey out at a bar.  I knew he hadn't been playing much at all and a kid was kinda ripping on him when I walked by so I told him "keep shooting buddy" haha.  Students asking about the coach shouldn't be considered heckling...when D1 athletes go out on campus, there is going to be lots of questions concerning the team.  When things are good, athletes are going to be considered celebrities.  In tough times, drunk kids will yell some ugly things in their direction.  This happens everywhere.  I'm not saying its right, but its something they have to deal with.  Even Bruce calls them pussies but i think they should be able to handle this...

That is correct and IMO drinking doesn't excuse behavior. Just because the coach calls them worse and they should be ABLE to handle, doesn't mean they should HAVE to deal with it. Just because some things go on all the time doesn't make them right. We ask the players to be disciplined, so for fans to be undisciplined toward them is inexcusable.    Probably a minority opinion, but I'm used to that.

I don't consider asking about the next coach heckling either. I just included it to give a bit more complete quote to provide a bit more context.